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There are some new collections for building translation memory in my language pair (English to German), in which naturally machine translation cannot be used. However, it seems that the copy and paste function in the workbench has been disabled. I understand that this is an attempt to prevent people from copying the source text into their own translation engines. However, it don't think that this is a good idea at all, as the collections seem to have a lot of links, non-language strings and other non-translatable stuff that I would normally just copy into the target text in order to prevent errors. I consider it an unreasonable demand to expect translators to painstakingly type that kind of strings. I won't even notice my own mistakes as the strings are meaningless to me.

Another problem with these collections is that the context given is, for example, in Russian, and has then been machine translated into English by the originators of the source text themselves, which is why the text does not make a lot of sense. Very unrewarding work, unfortunately. 

21 comments

  • 0
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    Heike S.

    And I wonder where we are supposed to get the icons if we are not able to copy paste them. But some people managed to find the icons, because I saw some edit jobs where the icons where in the translations, however there were also mistakes in the typed links...

  • 3
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    AlexF

    Hello
    I was going to open a similar post on this subject.
    For Heike, if you use CTL shift V, you can copy the whole source text in the translation box and then edit it, leaving the icons and links.

    However, this is not sufficient in French
    If someone can tell me how to do the accentued capital letters À Ç É and « » etc. on a laptop keyboard without using the ALT codes and without copy paste, I would be interested to know... I usually have a Post-It on my desktop with all of them ready to be copied and pasted...

    This is HUGELY annoying. Another instance where I don't feel like we are being treated like professionals, but like kids.

    Please restore this function asap.

    Alex

  • 3
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    Petra

    Thanks for this post. I ended up declining a job like that in my language pair because typing out a YouTube URL seemed ridiculous to me. I accepted an edit job. I noticed that I couldn't submit it without clicking on every job and adding a space and deleting it because it would show that there are missing jobs if I didn't edit them. Again, not very good as most of the translations were fine and I to need to edit/correct a few of them.

    I wod prefer restoring the the copy/past function as well. 

  • 1
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    HafiziRasidi

    Hi everyone,

    Did they disable copy and paste on the workbench? I just finished a job yesterday and I can still use the copy paste function.

     

    P.S: AlexF, you can press the window button + period (.), It'll pop up an emoji window, click on symbols (Ω) you can choose from there without copy paste. Hope this helps

  • 0
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    Heike S.

    Hi HafiziRasidi, 

    It was only in some collections on Saturday. The reason, I assume, is that machine translation was not allowed particularly for those collections (although I'm not sure if machine translation should be used for any translations for Gengo, I for my part, like translating myself and don't like doing post-editing jobs), but there is an ongoing suspicion that some people keep using it. 

    Edited by Heike S.
  • 1
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    Rup75

    Hi Heike!

    I was about to answer that MT is not allowed anyway, but then I found this sentence in the Translator Agreement that we all signed: "The submission of any form of machine translations that do not meet Gengo’s quality standards may lead to immediate termination of the job and/or this Agreement without notice to You."

    So, apparently, if you submit a machine translation that *does* meet Gengo's quality standards, it's fine ;-)

    It would be good if Gengo could elaborate on this because I was convinced that the policy was not to submit any form of machine translation, ever!

     

    At the surface, the case seems clear: Obviously, this is a paid human translation service, so it can't be acceptable to just copy-and-paste full sentences from a free MT, and I think that this is what Gengo is trying to avoid primarily. (And even if you tried post-editing it, it could always happen that it takes more time than doing it from scratch, or that it will be noticed for poor quality, or both.)

    However, we probably all know that there is a grey area between a dictionary and MT. For example, Linguee is a dictionary and text corpus, but as far as I know they used the same text corpus to develop the translation algorithms of DeepL. Now what if you enter a short expression of maybe 2 to 4 words into DeepL, which is just one click away? What you get is essentially a dictionary style output, but it is still up to you to decide whether that output is correct in the target language and whether it fits with the context and intended meaning... 

     

    Edited by Rup75
  • 0
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    Heike S.

    Hi Rup75!

    All about this sort of collection seems crazy to me. I guess you know something about programming. I don't, so there is a lot about this stuff I don't get. I accepted just one of them, just an editing task, where the translator had somehow been able to put in all the emojis, just to find out what would happen later on. I got it back for revision yesterday. The emojis where not the right ones. Copy and paste was enabled again. I guess there is a lot of experimenting going on, also with respect to translators' psyche ;-)

  • 0
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    Rup75

    That's crazy indeed, and doesn't have anything to do with translation...

  • 0
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    Lara Fernandez

    Hey all - thanks so much for this thread and your feedback! I passed your comments along to the team last week and it seems that they decided to deactivate the feature that prevented copy/pasting for these specific jobs. At the moment, I am not sure whether it will be activated again in future jobs for the same project, but please rest assured that the team is aware now of the kind of inconveniences that it can cause :) As always, thanks for using your voices to provide constructive feedback that we can grow from!

    @Rup75 - You are correct that, in the past (way back when, when I was a Gengo translator!) the use of MT was absolutely forbidden on Gengo, and it could be a trigger for an investigation that could result in qualification removal or termination, depending on the severity of the issue. We are aware, however, that machine translation has improved incredibly over the years, and we have even started to offer PEMT services on several language pairs. As such, it would be a contradiction to allow PEMT on some language pairs but forbid it in others, and therefore we generally do allow translators to use MT for reference, as long as the final submission to the customer reads naturally in the target language. There's a difference between simply running the source text through MT and submitting the result without giving it a second thought, and taking the MT as a base and then polishing it, correcting nuances, and ensuring that it sounds natural before submission. We do allow the latter :)

    That said, the above is our general stance -- unless there's other specifications. For the particular project being discussed here, MT is not to be used at all, and this I believe this is clearly stated on the instructions at the collection level. In such a case, the customers specs take precedence :)

  • 2
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    AlexF

    Copy/paste has been disabled again, in the same type of project as described above.

    Apparently, the team has forgotten what kind of inconveniences it can cause :) 

    Please restore copy/paste ASAP or give me another option to integrate these characters in French: À, Ç, É, È, Œ, œ, Ù

  • 0
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    Heike S.

    Probably best to vote with your feet if you can, Alex.

  • 0
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    AlexF

    @Heike: I'll definitely be voting with my feet from now on for any job with copy/paste disabled, instead of wasting my time trying to turn around sentences starting with À, Ç, É, È ...

    I wonder what is the status of that opt-out option we discussed on the forum a few months ago? 

  • 0
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    Heike S.

    I got a project email today with some sort of opt-out option. But at first glance it looked like it's all or nothing. I think I'd rather decide on a case-by-case basis.

  • 0
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    Heike S.

    Sorry, no opt-out, it's,only for the project emails.

    Edited by Heike S.
  • 0
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    HafiziRasidi

    @AlexF

    I don't have any context regarding the opt-out but for the symbols/letters like À, Ç, É, È, these are the shortcuts that I used..

    For windows: press the window symbol + period (.) to use any emojis or symbols, you can scroll through the symbol collections below.

    For mac (I've never used one though : I believe you just need to press and hold a key and options will be available... Either that or ctrl + cmd + space.

     

    Hope that helps...

  • 0
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    AlexF

    @HafiziRasidi
    I tried your shortcut with the Windows key, but I only find emojis, no symbols...
    Thanks anyway.
    AlexF

  • 0
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    HafiziRasidi

    @AlexF

    Thats weird, there should be... It would look like this... You can select other symbols and characters from the boxes above and below...

  • 0
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    Lara Fernandez

    @AlexF - I'm checking with the team on the copy/paste disabling (I had no idea this had been implemented again) to see what can be done.

    As for the opt-out, we run a survey in October after it was raised here in the comments, and found that the vast majority of respondents (70+%) did not feel a need for such an option, so this feature is not a priority at the moment. While our Product team (and I myself) do agree that it would be a nice to have, if the vast majority of our users don't feel it's necessary, it's not causing technical issues, and it's not an urgent matter, we unfortunately cannot prioritize it as we have a roadmap of other features and development that we are working on. We received very interesting feedback on possible options to approach the opt-out idea (such as grouping jobs from the same customer, etc) so we will definitely be taking them into account when we find ourselves in a position to move forward with a feature like this.

    Another thing that we found out, which I found to be very interesting, was that 42% of respondents didn't know that we limit the number of jobs per customer on the dashboard, and thought that jobs from other customers are hidden when the dashboard displays 10 jobs and there's a message saying that there are 100+ other jobs. This affected their perception that they were missing access to jobs from other customers when there were 10 jobs on the dashboard. We included this as a reminder in the October newsletter and also clarified in this Support article. Since jobs from the same customer are limited to 10 at a time, unless you're a preferred translator for several ongoing projects and all of them are displaying 10 jobs each at the same time (which rarely happens), being added to one project shouldn't really affect your access to jobs from other customers (which are not hidden) in terms of having to go through several pages of displaying jobs. In most situations, this would be 2 max. However, if you absolutely don't want to see jobs from this customer (even if it's for other projects, in the future) you can definitely email Support and request to be taken off their preferred list.

    Edited by Lara Fernandez
  • 0
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    AlexF

    Hello HafiziRasidi

    Strange, this is what is displayed, no symbols in sight..

  • 0
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    HafiziRasidi

    @AlexF

    Ohh... I see, you might be using an older version of window. This might solve it previous versions of windows (7 and prior) but in my opinion is rather a hassle to open every time and might be the same one as your post-it notes 😅 but I hope it helps.

    Steps: 1. go to search bar

    2. type in character map/charmap.

    3. pick your characters.

    4. click select

    5. click copy

    6. paste it where you want it.

  • 0
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    AlexF

    My computer is less than a year old with Windows 10! 

    But yes, your second suggestion is like my post-it and requires copy/paste, so doesn't work in my case. But thanks anyway.

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