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Hi everyone,

 

I've just checked the message about the new power-up tool for Feeder. Correct me if I am wrong, but after the beta it will be paid. So, translators who pay the subscription will have an advantage to find jobs faster than non-paying translators?

 

Thanks in advance,

Carlos

20 comments

  • 0
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    Alexander

    Sounds much like RumpelstiltskinRSS. I should have patented the concept :-)

    Remember, the browser version of RumpelstiltskinRSS will remain free for the foreseeable future, so even if you are not willing to pay a subscription you can still find jobs as fast as translators who use this new tool.

    Since, as I announced on the forum before, I plan to ask a monthly fee for the iOS and Android app versions once I get push notifications working, it will be interesting to see how much they will charge and what features exactly they will offer.

    So I don't think there is a problem here for any translator. This is just one more option you can pick. For myself, though, this is a reason to rethink how much time I wish to spend on the maintenance and further development of RumpelstiltskinRSS.

  • 2
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    erik.rothoff

    Hi there! My name is Erik, I'm from Sweden and one of the creators of Feeder. First of all, we're super excited to have finally release our Gengo power-up that we worked on for almost a year now :D

    A little history about Feeder: We're a really tiny company based in Stockholm, Sweden. I started Feeder as an extension for Google Chrome back in 2010. In 2012 me and my twin brother Johan (Johan on design, Erik on code) worked full time on Feeder for 6 months to bring to life the version we are seeing now. After that we both took on separate full-time jobs while working on Feeder evenings and weekends.

    In 2015 we met Mattias who joined the team as well. He helped us setup a proper support channel, and he noticed that we were getting a lot of questions for faster updates. As it turned out this was Gengo users :) In July last year we just shot an e-mail to Gengo asking if we could help them out, and we were super surprised when they replied!

    The 1st of August we released the Gengo power-up, and another great thing: I quit my job and started working on Feeder full time :D So now we'll be spending every waking hour to add features and improve Feeder. And most importantly: We plan on keeping our free version as it is today, if you don't want to pay for any additional features :)

    I just want to say that we love what we do, and our goal is to just bring a great tool to you that help you in your daily tasks. If you ever ever ever have any questions, we're always listening on our chat on feeder.co, or our support e-mail support@feeder.co. (It'll most likely be me who's responding) In July we sent out 589 replies in our support. We love talking to our users!!

  • 3
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    Alexander

    Hi Erik,

    I spent quite some time on RumpelstiltskinRSS as well. If I had known about this project, I might have made other choices in the past. Also, I'm not sure how to proceed in the future now that we are fishing in the same waters.

    I don't want to spoil your hard work, nor do I want you to spoil mine. What bothers me most is that Gengo knew this situation would arise all along without telling me.

    @Lara, @Erik, I suggest we have an offline conversation about how to proceed as good friends.

  • 0
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    erik.rothoff

    Absolutely! My e-mail is erik@feeder.co 

  • -2
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    Lara Fernandez

    Hi Alexander,

    The reason why we didn’t inform you before of this particular project is because we believe in giving every developer equal chances.

    I’ll be replying to your email shortly :)

    Lara

  • 2
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    Alexander

    Hi Lara,

    This niche market is too small for competition. Cooperation makes more sense and is compatible with equal chances.

    More on this in my reply to your email. :-)

    Alexander

  • 0
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    Antonio Portela

    Hi Erik,

    I've been using the Feeder power-thingy and it's nice. I mean, at least now I can see how many words the job I lost had before it disappeared from the dashboard.

    Only one thing, would it be possible to bundle the notification emails in conversations, like Gengo does with Gmail? My inbox is now clogged with single-job notifications.

    Antonio

  • 7
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    harihullur

    Hello all.

    I'd like to chime in with an objection to this whole situation.

    First off, Erik, Mattias, and Johan - you've built a great app that works very well for our purposes. My complaint is not towards you or your service, which I think is well-built and has a fair business model.

    Alexander - I always loved that you built Rumpelstilskin and think it works very well too, however, without push notifications on mobile devices, it is not as useful to me, as I am not on my laptop all day.

     

    My objection is towards the fact that we are now essentially put at a disadvantage at getting access to jobs without paying $8 a month. All this while as a translator for Gengo, I have become frustrated every time I get an email I see that there have been 1000 or 2000 jobs in my pair (FR-EN) in the past week, and at most I would have got emails for 4-5 of them all week! I understood that that was because of the limitation of Gengo only sending out job notifications every 30 minutes via email. However, now, there is a better way for translators to receive notifications (up to date app notifications on my phone, delivered at the maximum refresh rate), and the only way we can access it is by paying for it. If I don't pay for it I am likely at a disadvantage and going to see even less jobs every week than I already do!

     

    I'm a medical resident. To me, this is akin to if I had to pay for my patient's gas (petrol) bill to get to the hospital, or wait for them to get there on foot. That would be ridiculous, having to pay to get access to the work I get paid to do. Yes, I understand that paying for Feeder is not required, but having to pay for a fast lane to get access to work I think is silly, especially with the proportion of jobs I get notified about via email compared to how many there have (supposedly) been in the past week. That proportion is tiny already, and with the creation of a paid fast lane I expect it to go even lower.

     

    Honestly, I call on Gengo to provide ALL translators an app to notify us of jobs in our language pair (without charging for it!). I think it's only right - we shouldn't have to pay to get maximal and fair access to the work we are here to do!

  • 0
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    Alexander

    Hi harihullur,

    I agree with your objection. RumpelstiltskinRSS started out as a simple tool for my own personal use, which I then made available for others for free just because it seemed useful. I'd love to keep it that way.

    However, due to its success (or apparent need), I find myself spending more time (and even some money) on support, maintenance and further development than I find reasonable unless I ask a monthly fee.

    I already got emails from several users who say they are willing to pay, but honestly I am not fully satisfied with the current app versions since they need to run in the foreground and thus block any other usage of the device. For the Android version I am currently working on a solution. Once that works, I would be willing to pay for it myself so I will start asking a fee. For the foreseeable future, the browser version will remain for free, but I will try to make the app versions more compelling by adding extra features while the browser version will stay as it is now (except for bug fixes, of course).

    What exactly do you expect from push notifications? If you mean that when a jobs appears in your pair you would be notified right away, in such a situation all your fellow translators would be notified at the same instant as well, making the rat race experience worse than it already is. Only those with the best internet connections may like this option.

    However, in my recent tests on both iOS and Android push notifications do not always arrive instantly unless the app is already running, making the difference between push notifications and the current polling mechanism futile.

    The most important aspect of Gengo's current approach is the caching system, causing a delay of up to a minute before you can see a job. This is actually beneficial, since each translator has their own cache so the chances to be the first to see a job are more or less randomly spread over all translators.

    So the bottom line is you can use any RSS reader and have the same chances to grab a job, though according to my own totally unbiased opinion the paid version of RumpelstiltskinRSS will be best optimized for its task. :-)

  • 1
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    harihullur

    Alexander, I totally respect why you built the app and your need to charge something for it to keep it going. Like I said, my objection isn't towards you or even the Feeder guys! You're asking for a little bit of money to run the service, I wouldn't ask you to run it for free. My problem is with the company (Gengo) not providing its translators with the tools necessary for everyone to have an equal chance at the available jobs.

     

    What you described is exactly what I would want with job notifications. Push notifications are much faster than the every-30-minute emails. Sure I see your point about the problem with that, but t's certainly much better than the system we currently have, which is only the ones sitting in front of their computers all day, the ones using some sort of script to grab the jobs as soon as they show up, or the ones who are on the ideal 30 minute cycle to get all the emails with the jobs.

     

    The Rumpelstiltskin app once you get the notifications working sounds great, except its the same as feeder, and once again the ones who pay will have the upper hand at grabbing the jobs. I don't know much about the caching system, but it seems to me like even that could be integrated by an internal app created by Gengo for its translators? I really think that would be the most equitable solution.

  • 0
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    Alexander

    Hi harihullur,

    The every-30-minute emails are not very helpful, that's true. But you can use an RSS feed reader like the free version of Feeder / RumpelstiltskinRSS / whatever for an automatic check every minute. The caching system I mentioned is already in place, so if you use an RSS feed reader your chances are already fair enough, as long as you are near your computer or device on which the RSS feed reader runs. If you are not, push notifications will not be helpful either because how are you going to receive those notifications?

    Using some sort of script to grab the jobs as soon as they show up is against Gengo's terms. Every now and then you can read on the Gengo forums suspicions that jobs are 'stolen' that way, but I believe the real problem is that there are far more translators than jobs in most pairs.

    Have a look at Gengo's open data Capacity page. The top 10 language pairs have 60-240 active translators. Let's say a human translator needs 10 seconds after receiving a notification to grab the job if it's still available. Within those 10 seconds, 10-40 people will receive a notification as well and find the job has already been taken. So your chances to win the rat race are somewhere between 2.5 and 10 percent, and the chance to miss out on any job is 90+ percent. I think this explains why a fair system feels unfair.

    Also, in low volume pairs it can take ages before any job pops up in your feed in the first place. Up to now, around 500 translators have at some point in time tried RumpelstiltskinRSS. Around 100 have been using it in the past 7 days, indicating 80 percent were disappointed. I invite those 400 translators to let me know why if it is something I can change, but I expect the main reason is that there simply were no jobs during the time they tested my tool.

    Rumpelstiltskin can't perform miracles :-(

  • 1
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    tjoloinsigh

    Hi Carlos and harihullur,

    I think Alexander is absolutely correct, despite what Feeder would have you believe, the premium version of the app is by no means faster for notifications than any other RSS reader on desktop, at least this was my experience during the free trial.

    Although I do have my suspicions that at least some users are using some kind of nefarious script to preemptively take jobs, Alexander is also probably correct in that, for the most part, the amount of active translators simply exceed the amount of jobs available. 

    Anyway to conclude, I wouldn't worry about missing out by not paying Feeder $8 per month for the privilege of using a filtering system for jobs that barely exist in the first place.

     

     

    Edited by tjoloinsigh
  • 0
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    harihullur

    Hi folks, thanks for your comments. I think I might have been a little misunderstood.

    What I mean is the only way to get instantaneous mobile notifications is the Feeder power up. Due to the nature of my day job, I can't be sitting in front of the computer all day waiting for jobs, but I can if I receive them on the go on my phone. I'm not arguing that feeder is faster than Rumpelstiltskin or another desktop RSS reader with a sufficiently fast refresh rate, I'm saying the only way to get these job notifications on a mobile device is paid and I think that should be a translator tool provided by Gengo.

  • 0
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    Val

    The other day I was running Rumpelstiltskin on my phone drinking a few beers with friends when the (very loud!) music started and I was able to grab a job! However I missed a few $300 dollar jobs that had been there earlier, either I heard it too late or Rumpelstiltskin didn't catch all of them / notified me too late. Bottom line, you don't have to be in front of your computer all day and you can get Rumpelstiltskin for a one-time $2 payment and you will be notified about jobs.

  • 0
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    Val

    And @Alexander, what about crowdfunding? That way all those willing to do so could all chip in for expenses until you decide to charge a subscription.

  • 0
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    Val

    @harihullur Do you use iOS? If that is the case, iOS is to blame. There is no decent RSS app for iOS for reasons unknown to me. I wasn't able to find one. However, there are several for Android, some work better than others, you have to test them. My income from Gengo decreased substantially while I was using an iPhone, thankfully it was nicked by thieves.

  • 0
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    harihullur

    @Val
    I do use IOS, and I ageee there is a lack of RSS readers to suit our needs. All we need really is an RSS reader that lets the user adjust the feed refresh rate to the maximum Gengo allows (twice per minute). Sadly, I haven't been able to find one. Well, except feeder, which requires a monthly payment.

    To the other commenters, I agree Rumpelstiltskin is great! As long as one is sitting in front of a computer all day.

    I'm just unhappy with the fact that to get access to the jobs at the same rate as everyone using some sort of platform or the other, on mobile,, we have to pay for it.

    @Val, what do you recommend on Android? Also, LOL at your comment about your iPhone 'thankfully' being stolen! That's the spirit! 😄

    Edited by harihullur
  • 0
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    Alexander

    Hi Val,

    Sorry for responding late; I have been away from my computer for a few days.

    It's entirely possible Rumpelstiltskin didn't catch those $300 dollar jobs due to Gengo's caching mechanism. It's like looking through a window every minute without noticing passerbys that come and go in between.

    Thank you for suggesting crowdfunding, but setting that up would take more time than bringing the current version to the level I believe is worth a monthly fee. It's not much work anymore, there are just too many things in my life currently that distract me from implementing the final details.

  • 0
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    Yasemin Erdem

    Hi all,

    I have started using the paid Feeder-Version (power up) beginning of this month, but even if I click on the link within seconds of receiving the notification (ie, I see the incoming email when it is sent, which occasionally happens), it almost always says "this job has already been picked by another translator".

    I am not sure if I'm doing something wrong here, but so far: not impressed.

    Best,
    Yasemin

  • 0
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    Gin

    I'm come from China.now i have to pay fee of VPN and fee of feeder power-up at the same time.

    Of course i use Rss Feeder Reader power-up of my own free will so far.

    And thinking Rss feeder reader is the best one in Chrome browser.

    I'm just curious.Will Feeder raise the fee over and over again If it create new services  constantly?

    Of course you pay and get the"equal chances"or quit to get another tool.

      i'm a Japanese translator,Sorry for my poor English
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